Forum:Discussion from Blitzkrieg cnt
'Bold text' Let's continue here, due to size of the articles and potential browser problems. TylerDamion 17:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC) You know, from the time I started the "Blitzkrieg" in 2004 until just about right after I ordered the destruction of Cochran, I was in the camp of players who stressed too much over realism and numbers. And let me say that it is not a good thing, and I regret stressing over it so much. I even once wrote a very long document listing every single ship in the Imperial fleet, named and all. But it's not a good thing because it takes away from the story and the drama. When you focus too much on numbers you lose sight of the real objective, and that's to have a fun, engaging storyline with character development. I gave up on the number-strict-roleplay after Cochran and I advise any other military players to stop worrying about it so much. I see some military people following in my footsteps; for instance, taking down how many ships are in a fleet during a battle, down to the number of starfighters, and then at the end of the battle counting every single ship that was destroyed and posting it to the Wiki. Just don't worry about it. BUT, it is a good idea to have a general sense of how many ships there are; for instance, it might be a good idea to say "okay, we're attacking with about 5 Star Destroyers, and you guys have about 2 Star Destroyers defending" because it does add depth to the scene and lets the players know what exactly is going on. But save the extreme details. Star Wars MUSH isn't a military strategy sim. One thing I notice is that a lot of former military players are joining the NR or Empire and their military experience is passed on to the game, and it just becomes so militarized that it doesn't feel like Star Wars. As for the whole good guy vs bad guy debate... well, you know, back in 2003, Xerxes and I were the only two people saying that the Empire should become an Imperial Remnant, rather than going on to nearly conquering the Republic. I thought it would have provided an interesting story dynamic. And I still do think that the Empire should be defeated and reduced to what it is in the EU by 17 ABY (what we're in now). The story I thought up during my term as AFH was that we would go on to conquer Coruscant, bruise the NR very bad, hunt the Rebels down as they use Rebel-era tactics, but then a Battle of Endor-like battle would occur and the Empire would be defeated. I still do think that should happen. I wrote up a storyline for the post-Dac Civil War era. To spare details, I think the Empire needs to be defeated and that some bad guys need to die, as do some good guys. You see, when the game because "Empire beats up NR, NR falls, NR regroups, Empire falls, Empire resurgence, NR falls again" it becomes rather monotonous... especially when none of the more prominent characters face any real peril or death. Let's face it, there are some characters on the MUSH that are more prominent than others, that have a much larger impact on the story. Whether you be a Korolov, a Malign, a Skywalker, a Johanna, and yes, even my character Danik for a while. But a lot of people choose to stay out of the main storyline and instead focus on the smaller aspects of the story; your run of the mill smugglers, bounty hunters, or businessmen, etc. But, yeah, I personally think that if the NR has a comeback sometime in the near future, and the Empire is beaten back, but has its own comeback sometime later, it would just be very dull... that's why I personally think a new, original third enemy would spice things up. But whatever. But anyway. As for TP creations, it's a sad reality that most players are not proactive and do not take initiative to create and run plots. Not everyone is cut out to be a gamemaster. And that's fine. There are some people who step up to the plate and are just natural at churning out plots. Like I said earlier, there were more plots in 14 ABY than in 12, 13 and 16 ABYs combined, and for good reason. You had a select few people in positions of authority constantly running plots and engaging the players. You had people like Johanna and Gabrielle on the Republic sides. And as for the Imperials, not to toot my own horn, but I did create most of the plots in the 14 ABY era, starting with the operation to Chiarn all the way to Coruscant, and Tyler during his tenure as FH, in the mid-to-late 13 ABY to early 14 ABY. And I was upset when your story arc fell through, because I was interested in the whole Jedi-hunting task force and the missions to get Tyler's daughter. I still think that should play a role in the future, and it does play into the storyline I had in mind for post-Dac. But anyway, not to get off track, yeah... like I said, it's always, always been a select few who create the TPs. But there are exceptions, naturally. I would regularly make bbposts to the Imperial board, asking for my fellow Imps to send me their ideas for TPs and to allow them the free reign to run it on their own. Krieg was always one to step up to the plate, and so was Keline; I recall her sending me her idea for the automated VSD plot, and I approved of it and allowed her to run it. She did, and I was upset at the way the plot was treated by the admin after the fact. But to expect the entire playerbase to be creating their own TPs and expanding the story is a pipe dream... it would be nice, but it just isn't going to happen. --Danik Kreldin 18:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC) *The Imperial Remnant just isn't going to happen. To crush the NR or Empire fully and bring in a new bad guy/good guy would change Star Wars more than I think the admin would like. We would end up in the same dilemnia that the novels fell into with the New Jedi Order and they are IMHO crap. I am in favor of a third party for a short time, but at the end of the day, it should be Imperial vs NR. But if players start building their own epic stories, which Tyler has been pushing for a long time, then the larger story becomes less important. This is a direction I have wanted to see the MUSH go in since I was first made AFH. Large battles and planetary invasions are great but I think we all agree they get old fast. Star Wars should be a story first and foremost about the characters and their struggles. If the player base cannot or will not take charge of their own future then the situation will never change. How do you think people like Joh, Tyler, Krackor, Krieg, you, or I got to be Important, we worked on it by driving our characters stories through interacting with others. The short term health of the MUSH can fluctuate greatly by putting more burden on certain players to carry the game, but it won't bring long term stability unless there is a quantum shift in how people think and interact on the game. --Korolov 20:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC) **I have always preferred a central, main story arc. But there's no reason why there can't be sub-plots and individual, player-run plots. I think that if there's no central plot that's being driven then the game becomes something different than Star Wars. It has always been my view that there has to be a central character villain who is threatening the galaxy through the Empire or the Sith or whatever. There has to be a cast of main bad guys that the rest of the MUSH can see and rally against. From 13 ABY until very late 15 ABY that central cast of villains was Danik, Korolov and Malign. Vadim was a late addition and is a NPC; I may be wrong, but it seems the TP that was supposed to bring Vadim to the forefront fell through, as there doesn't seem to be a sense of "Vadim is the ultimate villain and he has to be stopped" on SW1. Maybe that's changing soon, I dunno, I hope so, but just my observation. And then you have the main cast of "good guys" opposing the central "bad guys" - Johanna, Moralis, Luke. A central story is crucial. Then of course you can have those sub-plots and other unique stories playing into that central story or carving their own unique story (as long as it doesn't contradict/interfere with anything else). But like I said, I personally think it'll never happen. Not everyone has the time and energy. I just think most average players come to RP and relax, not run plots. Also, I don't think a third enemy should be permanent, either. But something similar to the Palpatine TP back in 2002, only on larger scale and longer timeframe. But not indefinite. Something to temporarily shake up the foundation, to spice up the story, and offer a new dynamic rather than the rehashed Imperial-NR conflict. No Vong, naturally, but something unique and enthralling. --Danik Kreldin 21:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC) *Whoo-hoo! I got mentioned in a discussion! And not in a bad way! Thanks Korolov! :P Anyway, I have been reading through this stuff for awhile and figured I'd throw in my own thoughts on a few things. Firstly, I'd really like to see the MUSH get caught up in the war again. The battles and whatnot can be worked out between the two "big dogs" but others can be brought in with a little effort. Conflict doesn't always have to happen in Imp or NR space. The Tantive IV was taken over Tatooine, for example. The use of outposts or relay stations or whatever you want to call them is good enough reason to get both groups together in CSA or Caspian or Independent space. Just a suggestion there. This third party thing....I'm really interested in that as long as it can be done in a way that keeps everyone involved and isn't allowed to sit and stagnate like so many TPs tend to do when people get their lines crossed up OOCly. It doesn't have to be scripted and certain aspects can be kept secret, but in the same vein you can't have those in charge going THIS IS A SECRET TP YOU WILL FIND OUT WHEN WE SAY YOU CAN. I've heard a lot of complaints about secrecy lately and the Dac fiasco is a good example of what happens when something is planned but is kept a super huge secret from everyone who wants to play. Also...PLZ NO VONG teh Krack 01:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC) *To add on Krackor's comments about the CDU/independents being involved, in the storyline concept I have the CDU needs to get involved in the war. I really think that remaining neutral is detrimental. I'm putting it out there... CDU joins the war on the side of the NR and helps turn the tide :) And yeah, no Vong... I have an idea for a third enemy, but I'm not sure how well received it would be. --Danik Kreldin 01:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC) *I was talking to some table topers a few years back, because people come to me for nerd advice. They were players in a game that was pretty boring and they were wondering how to fix it and make the game more exciting. They wanted to blame the DM for the mess. Now it is hard to make comparisons between table top and MUSH, but the problem with the DM game was the static environment. The world never changed or reacted to things that happen in it. So my first point is: Every action has a consequence and no one's voice or actions should be ignored by anyone on game. Every player is there to make story for the game and themselves, and if their attempts at story are ignored or seen as unimportant then they will go find another game to play on. I want everyone to have an epic experience in the Star Wars universe because the mechanics of Star Wars are beyond a NR, Empire, Sith Order, Jedi Order, Old Republic, Confederacy, Vong, etc etc. The concept of Star Wars in the films was to tell the story of a single person really, Anakin Skywalker, but the mechanics and ideas of Star Wars was the heroic journey. I believe every character needs to take that journey in some way or another, or to find it in their backgrounds and use it to define their characters. I want to say every character that is played by a person on game is very important so we need to let players explore themselves and use the setting and even better to let the galaxy react to it. The Empire, CDU, NR, the planets, the Force they are all just tools for players to use to make story. It shouldn't be of any consequence to us what happens to any of the factions except that constant flux and change and movement is good because those hint to game activity. Should the Empire collapse back into nothing for awhile? Well is there a good story for it? Yes then if there is, yes the Empire should fall. Should the CDU join the war and cast off its armed neutrality? Is there an opportunity to further a story or two with it? Then yes let's give it a shot. Should the New Republic fall completely into Rebellion? Does the game seem to be benefiting from it? If so then yes. Should we try something new and let all the governments collapse and let the galaxy ICly fall into disarray? Is there a good reason for it or a story we can all enjoy that will come of it? If so, then yes let's give it a shot too. As long as these big changes are happening on a reasonable time frame (for a game not real life) then there shouldn't be a big problem with it. When you read articles called the 6th battle of Coruscant you say hmmm that is a lot of battles, but most people who participated in them would say they were fun. On the same hand as this, I think the game right now as it stands could be worth exploring. The Empire in a dominant position and the NR being weaker. We've done this before too though. A third threat is good, but only if it honors Star Wars. It is a game about the players not the factions though. TylerDamion 05:07, 25 January 2008 (UTC)